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Video Converter - Subtitles
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Groups: Member
Joined: 1/2/2008 Posts: 51 Location: UK
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Is there any way to pick which subtitles the video converter uses? I found that the default option does not always include the standard subtitles in a movie... i.e. on an English film when someone is speaking in a different language.
I use DVDfab as a fall-back to pick the subtitle track where the 'forced' option does not work. Can you do this with handbrake?
Thanks,
Dan
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 Groups: Administration
Joined: 2/1/2005 Posts: 35,792 Location: Aarhus, Denmark
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There is currently not an option to do this - the whole point of the operation is that it is automatic, and therefore you cannot do anything manually.
If there is a bug in how it is handled, that can be resolved, then this is something we should look at.
But, if it is simply because things are not marked correctly on the disc, then there is not much we can do.
Which specific problems are you seeing, and what is your settings for subtitles?
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Hi Brian - sorry for the delay in coming back, I've been away. Thaks for the response.
I have the following setting applied for subtitles in the Video Convertor:
Embedded subtitles in picture: If forced subtitles is present
Primary Subtitles Language: English
I'm using the Apple TV 2 settings (although I've changed default handbrake file to produce .m4v rather than .mp4 (so that I get the chapters), but that's the only change.
Two examples where I have had problems (both Bluray's):
- Taken: There a subtitles at the end of the movie when they are on the boat in Paris. These were missing with the settings above. I used DVD fab instead to pic the subtitle tracks
- The Thing (remake): At the start of the movie (first scene) they are not speaking English (although it's an English film). There are subtitles when playing the bluray direct, but they are not added to the Video conversion. Again, I solved manually with DVD Fab
Usually I have no issues, but a few discs I do.... I'm assuming it's how they are marked on the disc as when I use DVD fab, I basically have to check each avaiable English subtitle option until I find the right one... if I ask DVD fab just to use forced subtitles then I get the same issue.
Let me know your thoughts. May be good to have an 'override' option to pick if the auto option does not work, otheriwse there is no way to keep the subtitles without using a different application (such as DVD fab).
Separate question and I appreciate it's unrelated, however it's only a quick one: Do you have a date for the final release of the current WHS PR versions? I have a Tranquil machine and they won't upgrade until the final release - I really want to use the transfer to ipad feature :-)
Cheers,
Dan
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Joined: 7/14/2012 Posts: 1 Location: 6419 Pinehurst Ct, Mukilteo, WA 98275
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So after making these changes is it showing the desired subtitles?? custom cabinets bay area
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Groups: Member
Joined: 1/2/2008 Posts: 51 Location: UK
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brucejames wrote:So after making these changes is it showing the desired subtitles?? Not through MyMovies, no. But using a 3rd party application to convert to mp4 (DVD fab), and manually selecting which subtitle track to use did allow me to find the correct subtitles and then embed in the converted video. Unfortunately this means using a manual process on a different machine (PC), which isn't ideal. Thanks, Dan
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Joined: 6/18/2012 Posts: 245 Location: Falling Waters, WV
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This is normal for Blu-Ray movies compared to DVD. DVD had the subtitles for scenes with foreign languages in an English movie embedded into the movie via a transparent image. So if you rip a DVD that has foreign language subtitles for a scene you can rip with no subtitles and still get them (ie; Klingon in Star Trek). Blu-Ray however have a separate track (the Forced Subtitle option in DVDFab). When you rip with the built in ripper it can't distinguish these forced subtitles track. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtitle_(captioning) wrote:SDH "SDH" is an American term the DVD industry introduced. It is an acronym for "Subtitles for the deaf and hard-of-hearing", and refers to regular subtitles in the original language where important non-dialog information has been added, as well as speaker identification, useful when the viewer cannot otherwise visually tell who is saying what.
The only significant difference for the user between "SDH" subtitles and "closed captions" is their appearance: SDH subtitles usually are displayed with the same proportional font used for the translation subtitles on the DVD; however, closed captions are displayed as white text on a black band, which blocks a large portion of the view. Closed captioning is falling out of favor as many users have no difficulty reading SDH subtitles, which are text with contrast outline. In addition, DVD subtitles can specify many colors, on the same character: primary, outline, shadow, and background. This allows subtitlers to display subtitles on a usually translucent band for easier reading; however, this is rare, since most subtitles use an outline and shadow instead, in order to block a smaller portion of the picture. Closed captions may still supersede DVD subtitles, since many SDH subtitles present all of the text centered, while closed captions usually specify position on the screen: centered, left align, right align, top, etc. This is very helpful for speaker identification and overlapping conversation. Some SDH subtitles (such as the subtitles of newer Universal Studios DVDs/Blu-ray Discs) do have positioning, but it is not as common.
DVDs for the U.S. market now sometimes have three forms of English subtitles: SDH subtitles; English subtitles, helpful for viewers who are Hearing and whose first language may not be English (although they are usually an exact transcript and not edited into Simple English); and closed caption data that is decoded by the end-user's closed caption decoder. Most anime releases in the U.S. only include as subtitles translations of the original material; therefore, SDH subtitles of English dubs ("dubtitles") are uncommon. [9][10] High-definition disc media (HD DVD, Blu-ray Disc) uses SDH subtitles as the sole method because technical specifications do not require HD to support line 21 closed captions. Some Blu-ray Discs, however, are said to carry a closed caption stream that only displays through standard-definition connections. Many HDTVs allow the end–user to customize the captions, including the ability to remove the black band.
Quote:Subtitles in the same language on the same production can be in different categories:
Narrative This is the most common type of subtitle. Narrative subtitles are those in which spoken dialogue is displayed. These are most commonly used to translate a film with one spoken language and the text of a second language.
Forced These are common on movies. Forced subtitles only provide subtitles when the characters speak a foreign or alien language, or a sign, flag, or other text in a scene is not translated in the localization and dubbing process. In some cases, foreign dialogue may be left untranslated if the movie is meant to be seen from the point of view of a particular character who does not speak the language in question.
Content Content subtitles are a North American Secondary Industry (non-Hollywood, often low-budget) staple. They add content dictation that is missing from filmed action or dialogue. Due to the general low budget allowances in such films, it is often more feasible to add the overlay subtitles to fill in information. They appear most commonly seen on America's Maverick films as forced subtitles, and on Canada's MapleLeaf films as optional subtitles.
Content subtitles also appear in the beginning of some higher-budget films (e.g. Star Wars) or at the end of a film (e.g. Gods and Generals). Titles only Dubbed programs use this sort of subtitle. Titles only provide only the text for any untranslated on-screen text. They are most commonly forced (see above).
Bonus Bonus subtitles are an additional set of text blurbs that are added to DVDs. They are similar to Blu-ray Discs' in-movie content or to the "info nuggets" in VH1 Pop-up Video. Often shown in popup or balloon form, they point out humorous blunders in the filming or background/behind-the-scenes information to what is appearing on screen.
Localized Localized subtitles are a separate subtitle track that uses expanded references (i.e. "The sake [a Japanese Wine] was excellent as was the Wasabi") or can replace the standardized subtitle track with a localized form replacing references to local custom (i.e. from above, "The wine was excellent as was the spicy dip").
Extended/Expanded Extended subtitles combine the standard subtitle track with the localization subtitle track. Originally found only on Celestial DVDs in the early 2000s, the format has expanded to many export-intended releases from China, Japan, India and Taiwan. The term "Expanded Subtitle" is owned by Celestial, with Extended being used by other companies.
3D 3D subtitles combine the standard subtitle position along the X and Y axis of the picture, with a third position along the Z-axis. This third positioning allows the subtitle to "float" in front of the 3D image. This option is available in Digital Cinema and in 3D Blu-ray releases.
Quote:Subtitles exist in two forms; open subtitles are 'open to all' and cannot be turned off by the viewer; closed subtitles are designed for a certain group of viewers, and can usually be turned on/off or selected by the viewer - examples being teletext pages, US Closed captions (608/708), DVB Bitmap subtitles, DVD/Blu-ray subtitles.
While distributing content, subtitles can appear in one of 3 types:
Hard (also known as hardsubs or open subtitles). The subtitle text is irreversibly merged in original video frames, and so no special equipment or software is required for playback. Hence, very complex transition effects and animation can be implemented, such as karaoke song lyrics using various colors, fonts, sizes, animation (like a bouncing ball) etc. to follow the lyrics. However, these subtitles cannot be turned off unless the original video is also included in the distribution as they are now part of the original frame, and thus it is impossible to have several variants of subtitling, such as in multiple languages.
Prerendered (also known as closed) subtitles are separate video frames that are overlaid on the original video stream while playing. Prerendered subtitles are used on DVD and Blu-ray (though they are contained in the same file as the video stream). It is possible to turn them off or have multiple language subtitles and switch among them, but the player has to support such subtitles to display them. Also, subtitles are usually encoded as images with minimal bitrate and number of colors; they usually lack anti-aliased font rasterization. Also, changing such subtitles is hard, but special OCR software, such as SubRip exists to convert such subtitles to "soft" ones.
Soft (also known as softsubs or closed subtitles) are separate instructions, usually a specially marked up text with time stamps to be displayed during playback. It requires player support and, moreover, there are multiple incompatible (but usually reciprocally convertible) subtitle file formats. Softsubs are relatively easy to create and change, and thus are frequently used for fansubs. Text rendering quality can vary depending on the player, but is generally higher than prerendered subtitles. Also, some formats introduce text encoding troubles for the end-user, especially if very different languages are used simultaneously (for example, Latin and Asian scripts).
In other categorization, digital video subtitles are sometimes called internal, if they are embedded in a single video file container along with video and audio streams, and external if they are distributed as separate file (that is less convenient, but it is easier to edit/change such file).


 Knowledge BaseMovie Collection
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Groups: Member
Joined: 1/2/2008 Posts: 51 Location: UK
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listen97 wrote:This is normal for Blu-Ray movies compared to DVD. DVD had the subtitles for scenes with foreign languages in an English movie embedded into the movie via a transparent image. So if you rip a DVD that has foreign language subtitles for a scene you can rip with no subtitles and still get them (ie; Klingon in Star Trek). Blu-Ray however have a separate track (the Forced Subtitle option in DVDFab). When you rip with the built in ripper it can't distinguish these forced subtitles track. Thanks for the info. I don't think it's 'normal' though, I've ripped hundreds of blu-rays, and most of them the subtitles are burned in fine with My Movies (Handbrake), it's just a few specific titles where it does not work and I have to resort to DVD fab and pick the subtitles to use.
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 Groups: Member
Joined: 6/18/2012 Posts: 245 Location: Falling Waters, WV
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danfoord wrote:listen97 wrote:This is normal for Blu-Ray movies compared to DVD. DVD had the subtitles for scenes with foreign languages in an English movie embedded into the movie via a transparent image. So if you rip a DVD that has foreign language subtitles for a scene you can rip with no subtitles and still get them (ie; Klingon in Star Trek). Blu-Ray however have a separate track (the Forced Subtitle option in DVDFab). When you rip with the built in ripper it can't distinguish these forced subtitles track. Thanks for the info. I don't think it's 'normal' though, I've ripped hundreds of blu-rays, and most of them the subtitles are burned in fine with My Movies (Handbrake), it's just a few specific titles where it does not work and I have to resort to DVD fab and pick the subtitles to use. While rare there are some movie companies that are just plain cheap and won't actually create a true HD Bluray from the source material. They actually take the DVD and up-convert it to an HD Bluray. This could be the case with some of the titles that you get the Subtitles with no issues. Then again it could be something similar in that the movie companies are being lazy and instead of doing the proper Bluray rendered overlay are hard coding them.
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