Sorry - this should be moved to My Movies Online Service / TV Series Data forum...

I know it doesn't actually change the way the titles are sorted, but something really bothers me about having naming standards that allow every person to follow different rules and have different entries for the same Title. The Sort attribute rules for complete TV Series are:

Friends 01: The Complete First Season
or possibly
Friends 01.00: The Complete First Season

Why the possibly? Half my TV Series have mixed entries, where some of the seasons are XXXXX 01: Season One, and the very next season is XXXXX 02.00: Season Two. The sorting still works, but is kind of awkward-looking across.

Why do we need the "possibly" in a naming standard? If the series is broken into volumes, great, that is covered in the very next rule:

volume Friends: Season One: Volume One Friends 01.01: Season One: Volume One

just like a boxed set as it should be.

This really causes confusion as well. for example, Caprica series was sold in Season 1 and Season 1.5. This is entered as Caprica 01.00 and Caprica 01.05? Where did the .05 come from? There isn't a volume 5? If we're going to use the 01.00 format, it needs to be used on all TV Series or only on those sold as volumes.

And some clarity on how to use it need to be given. Should Caprica Season 1.5 be entered as 01.50 or 01.02 (not 01.05 surely).

My recommendation is to follow the same Sort standard as Movie titles (NameXXXX 01: Season One) unless it is a volume (not so common). The additional .00 on all the sorts adds no value at all.


Thanks

Thanks for the reply Steve. I do understand that in some cases the 01.00 convention would be needed (for volume type releases as you've mentioned). But typically, TV Series are sold as a complete season and the "Title 01: Season One" format works perfectly. Even if you also have the same season in volumes, having a "Title 01.01: Episode Name" format will still sort correctly, with the entire Season first, and any individual episodes following. Of course, you can also use "Title 01.00: Season One" for the entire season if that is the decision.

I am quite happy if the naming standard is changed to 01.00 convention, my request was to make it one standard not whichever you desire as we end up with what we have now, a mixture of the two (and sometimes incorrect usage at that). Even on the same TV Series you can find one year using 01.00 and another using 02 only. Again, doesn't cause the sorting to break, just kind of ugly. If we change the Sort Naming for all TV Series to be one or the other, or at least only use the 01.00 for the broken volumes then we can start adhering to a single standard.

As the standard is written now, it is up to the contributor if they want to use "Weeds 01: Season One" or "Weeds 01.00: Season One"

For example, I have the first 8 seasons of Two and a Half Men; the Sort entries are:
Two and a Half Men 01: The Complete First Season
Two and a Half Men 02: The Complete Second Season
Two and a Half Men 03: The Complete Third Season
Two and a Half Men 04: The Complete Fourth Season
Two and a Half Men 05.00: The Complete Fifth Season
Two and a Half Men 06.00: The Complete Sixth Season
Two and a Half Men 07.00: The Complete Seventh Season
Two and a Half Men 08: The Complete Eighth Season

There is no value in having Seasons 5,6, and 7 in a different format than the other seasons, just messy.

My request is to make one standard for these and stick to it. Again, for a compete, unbroken Season I'd say use the 01 format; but equally happy with 01.00. As long as it is the same for all complete Seasons.

Does that make sense?

Brian

Steve's post seemed to be dealing with the episode whereas Brian was asking about the holding title. Agreed that the episodes should always follow s00e00 formats that are the public standard but the holding title does not need the extra .00. I fully agree with Brian that it is one of many frustrating 'messy' things that could, and should be clarified in the naming requirement instructions. It also helps to make the MyMovies look and feel more professional due to the extra level of consistency (vs. what you see here). I like to think of it like "if this was a commercial product (which this essentially this is), would this be an acceptable level of quality"? In this case, and many like it, it would not be acceptable and looks like an error/oversight.

Doing the extra level of detail in guidance for this and other similar requests is important as it eliminates the disputes around formatting and other issues where users bother you guys with invalid data requests (or just fight updating it back and forth). I've long since shut off any updates from the Online DB after I enter my title due to many many many issues with people changing things due to preference where there was no guidance specified. I shouldn't have to as there isn't that many variables here. While the instructions may get a little longer than ideal, all rules to DB curation can be formalized so we 'free' laborers could be used more like a company would use their varied labor to deliver a very standardized product that doesn't appear to have been made by many disparate people.

No my post was NOT dealing with Episodes

try looking up these EAN's

5014503261627 Doctor Who: The Keys of Marinus sort title Doctor Who 01.21: The Keys of Marinus
5014503109929 Doctor Who: The Aztecs sort title Doctor Who 01.27: The Aztecs
5051561033773 Doctor Who: The Sensorites sort title Doctor Who 01.31: The Sensorites

All legitimate DVD's as sold by the BBC here in the UK.

The Doctor Who Original Series as produced between 1963 and 1989 where never sold as complete Seasons they are the occasional Box Set whereby they put similar Stories together like the Bred For War Box Set which contains stories relating the Sontarians

5014503261726 Doctor Who: Bred for War which contains
5014503233426 Doctor Who: The Time Warrior sort title Doctor Who 11.01: The Time Warrior
5014503181123 Doctor Who: The Sontaran Experiment sort title Doctor Who 12.09: The Sontaran Experiment
5014503258627 Doctor Who: The Invasion of Time sort title Doctor Who 15.21: The Invasion of Time
5014503121327 Doctor Who: The Two Doctors sort title Doctor Who 22.07: The Two Doctors

but even then despite the above titles having their own barcodes only one was available in the UK to be purchased outside of the Box Set as a stand alone DVD.

So just because you think that the Doctor Who DVD's I was referring to where Episode, if you view the above EAN's you will find they are as sold DVD's.

As far as doctor Who is concerned it's only the New Series (Ecclestone, Tennat & Smith) that can be purchased as Complete Season's, providing of course as a fan you haven't already purchased them as they are released during the season in which they are aired, when the BBC releases a Four Story DVD every few weeks during the airings and only at the end of the season do they also produce a Complete Season Box Set.



As for complete Seasons whereby people have only put "xxxxx 01: The Complete" or whatever season number hasn't been made full length it isn't to hard to submit the ".00" yourselves to ensure all are uniform surely, if your that OCD by it?

Steve

Then the answer is the same using the Doctor Who original series as an example.

So if when you are presented with 2 half seasons, have the first part as:-
xxxxxxxx 01.00: yyyyyyyy
xxxxxxxx 01.aa: wwwwww

Just replace the aa with the Episode number of where it would appear in the season so for arguments sake if the complete season is 20 episodes long and the first half season is episodes 1-10 and the second half is episodes 11-20

xxxxxxxx 01.00: yyyyyyy
xxxxxxxx 01.11: wwwww

That way there is just system in place regardless of how the seasons are sold be it as complete or half seasons. That way there is consistency throughout MM regardless of how the DVD's are sold through out the World.

Heroes & BSG are another example of the same Episodes sold differently around the World. In the US you had BSG Season 4 & Season 4.5 here in the UK we had Season 4 & The Final Season.

But yes in answer to your original question it would be better to standardize the way they are dealt with and since there are different releases through out the globe as already pointed out the best solution would be the xx.zz, whereby xx pertains to the Season Number and zz pertains to the possible Episode Number so as to accommodate all possibilities.

Steve

wrong trent, sort guidelines apply and users are all expected to follow them on contribution, and ideally all users should contribute, it does not help the user or anyone to suggest people have varients locally as will end up biting them in the arse one way or another.

the rules are simple and consistant overall and if you follow them it will be fine.

---

My Movies Head Moderator

Carl, I agree that following the rules should be the answer. The problem here is that the guidelines for Sort allow each person to decide what format they want as it has two "approved" formats. 01.00 and 00

Lostinva, you wrote that we need to follow the guidelines.. The problem is we are following them, but they allow for personal taste.

Friends 01: The Complete First Season
or possibly
Friends 01.00: The Complete First Season

Or Possibly implies you should use the format 01: XXXXX, but possibly you can use the 01.00 XXXXX format. It goes on to show examples where the 01.00 format should be used for seasons that are not complete. This is not a matter of people not understanding how to apply the standard, it is that there is variability in the way it is worded.

If the moderators feel we should always use the 01.00 format for TV Series DVDs, the just state that in the guidelines and the problem goes away over time.

I started this thread asking that we change the standard to have one numbering format only. If we don't, then the only way to keep your data clean is to lock your personal database as was suggested. I've actually had to do this on a couple occasions where one season of a TV Series used a different format from the others. When I submitted the request to change it as Incorrect Data following the process, the moderator told me the format was correct and so wouldn't change it. I explained in the request that the other season for the TV Series follow a different format.

Technically the moderator is correct, but that still leaves the Sort field inconsistent across the seasons in the same TV Series.

So we have some seasons following one "approved" format and others in the same Series following the other "approved" format and they are all locked down and can't be fixed. So, I fix them on my database and lock it.

If we just remove the 00 format from the TV Series Sort attribute, then over time they'll all be consistent. For those who don't care about consistent data, it shouldn't concern them one way or the other.

Agreed Steve. If the guidelines take out the optionality from the rule people will start using it and the moderators can enforce it accordingly. I'd happily change all the TV Series that I have and submit the updates. I don't think this would be too hard to understand (or is my opinion of the public at large too high?).

So, again - what's the process to change the guidelines? Anyone?

I'm relatively new getting into the TV sereis stuff and I have noticed the .00s arbitrarily appearing but as they don't change anything 01.00 is equivalent to 01 don't worry about it. I would go with the mod opinion of don't add the .00 unless its required by the type of release going back to the orginal Caprica example. The second set of numbers is for the episode leave it out or use .00 for a complete season, for partial seasons the episode number is the first in the box.

The two boxes for Caprica are Caprica: Season 1.0 and Caprica: Season 1.5

There are 9 episodes in the season 1.0 box I think so presumably the sorts would be:

Caprica 01.01: Season 1.0
Caprica 01.10: Season 1.5