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msnellen
Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2015 1:25:38 PM
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Last week I purchased a couple of boxes from my local Christian bookstore that each contain three short movies on the topic of how God provides for people. These boxes were already on the service, but are far from complete. I am planning on completing them, but for some reason they have their Media Type set to 'TV Series'.
As I'm pretty sure that these short movies have never been broadcast on TV and also were never intended for that purpose, I'm wondering if I'm in my right to change these to box sets.
These short films (about 15 minutes each) are intended to be used for Bible-study groups at home or in church.
Categorizing them as TV-Series seems wrong.
Is there any documentation as to when something must be considered a TV Series and when it is OK to consider it a regular Box Set?
andycob
Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2015 4:26:59 PM

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We would need to know what these are exactly to tell, something should be a TV series if it is a TV series essentially.

When you have something like this however where these are probably strictly speaking neither movies or a TV series, I doubt these were made for or ever shown in theatres, that it can be something of a judgement call.

What are these called? what are their IMDB IDs, barcodes etc.?
msnellen
Posted: Monday, April 13, 2015 12:15:08 PM
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These boxes are called: "God Provides" and have the barcodes 9789081581318 and 9789081581332.
On the service these have no imdb id's. I did find two entries for short documentaries though. tt0926080 and tt1603476, where the latter also lists a name that is on the box (have not yet watched the documentaries themselves so can't tell if the names in the credits match), problem is that the running time doesn't match any of the short documentaries.
andycob
Posted: Monday, April 13, 2015 2:49:19 PM

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The honest answer is it is not really clear what these are or how they should best be treated. It looks like the content is a segmented set of excerpts with some educational material inserted of what was originally a straight to video feature length title, the one with IMDB id tt1603476. The original straight to video feature would be accepted as a movie but this educational version broken into pieces is not precisely anything assuming it is what it appears to be, neither the box nor any of the short films contained would appear to have an IMDB entry.

That said I can't see an obvious problem with allowing these as a box set, since they don't appear to be a TV series either, though it is questionable as is the media type as to whether it should be movie or other.
peopeo
Posted: Wednesday, April 15, 2015 10:31:13 PM
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This is a tricky one... Ken Russell at the BBC, 883929019694. Six Child titles in the box-set, of which five are TV-episodes from two different long-time-going culture/documentary program series (Monitor and Omnibus), followed by a TV Movie.
Is it OK to set all six titles up as Movies?

File Attachment(s):
KenRussell _B.jpg (1,169kb) downloaded 115 time(s).


andycob
Posted: Thursday, April 16, 2015 10:38:36 AM

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No, if these are TV episodes they should not be made as movies.

Depending on what the TV movie is might this sounds like it would qualify as TV series box set, which uses a child profile per 'show' contained. We have generally tried to avoid mixed media type sets as they were not really intended to exist, exactly what is each element?

If the TV movie is itself forms part of or continues a 'TV series' then it should typically also be considered a TV series, just like a feature length episode.
peopeo
Posted: Thursday, April 16, 2015 7:03:07 PM
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OK, no mixed titles, makes sense. Some issues however...

The Omnibus programs:

Dante's Inferno, IMDB tt0061552
Song of Summer: Frederick Delius, IMDB tt0063628

are not on theTVDB.com, I guess that's the reason why there are no episodes to map to the discs. How do I create missing episodes?

And...

The TV Movie:

Isadora Duncan, the Biggest Dancer in the World, IMDB tt0060546

is not part of any series of programs, just a single Movie produced for TV. How do I deal with this?

andycob
Posted: Thursday, April 16, 2015 11:49:22 PM

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Missing TV series and episodes can be created and contributed as per guidelines, you add the series then can right click to add episodes.

However the Omnibus series entry for the BBC show from 1967 is in the database but woefully incomplete and somewhat mixed up between a season and year based version imported from TVDB so it would need extensive correction and improvement to add all the missing episodes, I would stick with the year based setup I think.

For the TV movie there are two ways of handling things:

One way would be to accept the item as a mixed media type, it will work but was never really intended and has a few oddities as a result since the parent cannot have two media types, it would be most correct as 'other' as it is neither a movie or a series but other places it under movies then one child title as 'TV series' for the two episodes then one child as movie for the TV movie. The trouble is the parent and movie child then show under movies and the TV series child shows under TV series data. So this is best avoided if possible, but can be done if necessary.

The other option and the cover images and title info suggest but don't prove this is right is that the item labelled as a TV movie by IMDB may in fact be a part of the series, IMDB have a habit of labelling any TV movie as a TV movie but we (like TVDB) operate TV movies that form part of or continue TV series as part of the TV series, meaning there is a good chance that 'TV movie' would be valid as a season 0 special of the Omnibus TV series. IMDB is not always right and we don't operate everything the same way, TV movies that make up TV series being a prime example. All the cast, crew and production details seem to match up to the Omnibus series so this could easily be a 'pilot' or similar.

The second option would be simplest with that TV movie treated as a special as then the whole thing becomes just a standard TV series entry mapped to the 'Omnibus' series without any problems, albeit one where a lot of the series data is currently missing and in need of contribution or correction.
peopeo
Posted: Sunday, April 19, 2015 11:27:54 AM
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I have nine director-focused box sets where I have some problems...

I did not save the outer package with the barcode, there are no barcodes on the actual keep-case (which I kept). I did, however, make notes of the barcodes in my previous disc management system. I am comfortable with my barcodes beeing correct.

Most of the sets are already represented by their parents, now i'm about to contribute the child titles and improved cover scans. Since I can not provide verification regarding barcode from the actual cover, is it OK if you just compare my new scans with (the same but low quality) covers already present in the data base? (There are no separate covers for the child titles, all sets are Single Case Box Sets)

One parent doesn't have any covers in the data base, two parents doesn't exist in the data base yet. Is it OK if I provide screen shots from commercial sites, featuring the front cover and the EAN-number as barcode verification?

In total it will be a contribution of 38 child titles.
andycob
Posted: Sunday, April 19, 2015 3:46:17 PM

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You will need the correct covers from one source or another in order to create and contribute the full box set. You can use covers from online sources PROVIDED they meet guidelines requirements, i.e. scans not photos, properly aligned and cropped, no copyright or water marks added etc.

How can you be supplying an improved scan of the covers you no longer have?

If these are single case items what is that you have thrown away that had the barcode? a slip cover, a slip case, a data slip attached to the rear cover?

It is hard to be definite without understanding exactly what the situation is but from the sounds of it you will need to find the correct covers online or be unable to contribute for those that currently don't already have them.
peopeo
Posted: Sunday, April 19, 2015 4:27:33 PM
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I threw away the cardboard slip covers, it was just a matter of getting one more box to fit in the storage shelf. Since the slip cover art and back cover information were identically printed on the paper between the hard plastic and the plastic sheet of the hard cover, all information is still there - apart from the barcode printed on the short end of the cardboard slip case.

Thus, making a scan of the box itself (actually I pull out the printed paper from the box prior to scanning) will give exactly the same pictures as if scanned from the slip cover - otherwise I would have kept them...
The question is if there are any allowed alternative ways of verifying the barcode.


And by the way - nowadays I have increased my movie storage area with some additional shelves :-)
andycob
Posted: Sunday, April 19, 2015 6:43:26 PM

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The issue here is first if what you removed was a slip cover or slip case, slip covers which slide over the top and are open at the top and bottom typically have a window for or the same barcode as the case cover and we consider either valid and will keep whichever is uploaded first in high quality typically. However a slip case, typically has the slot on the side and may contain items without barcodes, for those the slip case covers should really be used. It may superficially be the same artwork but in fact slip covers or slip cases would be a different size to the case and not the same. The second is that as you no longer have the cover it is impossible for you to show us what it was or verify the barcode meaning your un-barcoded cover would likely be rejected as invalid and really the barcoded cover should be the one used if in this case the case does not have one and the slip case/cover does.

If this is in fact a slip case you removed and no longer have you really need to find the correct cover as the slip case should be the one used, if this is a slip cover however typically we would say you can use the case or the slip cover 'covers' but the fact you say the case lacks the barcode suggests that the removed element was probably a slip case and even if was a slip cover it would be the preferred (perhaps even required) cover as otherwise the barcode will be unverifiable.

If you were able to provide images of both the case and slip case/cover we would be able to advise but if you no longer have the slip case/cover it is very hard for us to be sure.
peopeo
Posted: Sunday, April 19, 2015 9:25:55 PM
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Thanks for the clarification, it was slip cases I got rid of.

One last question (might be two): If I make a contribution on missing Child titles for existing parents, just data, no covers, will it be rejected as well? But if it's accepted, will the child inherit the parent's cover art by default or will it be left blank?
andycob
Posted: Monday, April 20, 2015 4:12:43 AM

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The child profiles will not inherit anything, and the contribution would likely be rejected due to the lack of covers making it impossible to verify its correctness. Currently box sets are held to something of a higher standard the ordinary titles and while it is not an absolute requirement that they are totally complete it is much preferred so they can be locked and protected.
bernardosardinha
Posted: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:23:10 PM
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I have a James Bond Box which contains 23 movies, organized in 8 Blu-Ray standard Covers (7 with 3-discs and one with 2). Those Blu-Ray covers doesn't have a barcode, but have different art covers each one, with info and images of the movies inside each one.

My doubt is about what front/back covers should i use on child titles in those cases.

I Have a Star Wars Box with similar packaging; a 9-disc box, 3 blu-ray standard covers, with 3 discs each, different info on the back of each case. I have also a "Rocky" and a "Fast & Furious" boxes with same organization method.
andycob
Posted: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 12:45:57 AM

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If these 'covers' for the child items are in fact cases, then you would simply use the front and rear cover of the case the specific child title is in for the child covers, it does not matter that the cover is repeated because some are in the same case. Note internal artwork does not count, these must be cased items with a front and rear cover.
scockman
Posted: Saturday, March 11, 2017 8:06:33 PM
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I have the Scooby-Doo Where Are You!: The Complete Series and I would like some help in understanding if it is a boxset.

Title: Scooby-Doo Where Are You!: The Complete Series
Barcode: 883929276080

Disc 1 thru 4 in the title contain Season 1 and 2 of the show Scooby-Doo Where Are You!
Disc 5 thru 7 in the title contain Season 3 of the show The Scooby-Doo Show.

Should this title be submitted as a TV Series Boxset?
andycob
Posted: Saturday, March 11, 2017 9:58:42 PM

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This one is a bit of a technicality as to what 'show' the third series really is. Only part of it originally aired under the where are you branding and the rest was changed and syndicated under the Scooby-doo show title but given the huge time gap and how it was rebranded it is best to treat them as separate shows.

Based on the available data the best option would be to make this a TV series box set, note that such a box set is not based on packaging, it would have one child for each of the shows, so you would have the two seasons of where are you mapped to one child, and then the content of the 'third' on a second child mapped to the relevant episodes from the Scooby-doo show.
scockman
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 7:35:37 PM
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andycob wrote:
This one is a bit of a technicality as to what 'show' the third series really is. Only part of it originally aired under the where are you branding and the rest was changed and syndicated under the Scooby-doo show title but given the huge time gap and how it was rebranded it is best to treat them as separate shows.

Based on the available data the best option would be to make this a TV series box set, note that such a box set is not based on packaging, it would have one child for each of the shows, so you would have the two seasons of where are you mapped to one child, and then the content of the 'third' on a second child mapped to the relevant episodes from the Scooby-doo show.


I would create the box set similar like movie box sets, following the box set rules.

Parent: Scooby-Doo Where Are You?: The Complete Series -- Total of 8 Discs (Disc 8 is a Bonus Disc -- not related to any of the child titles)
Child 1: Scooby-Doo Where Are You? -- mapping Disc 1 - 4 and Episodes
Child 2: The Scooby-Doo Show -- mapping Disc 5 - 7 and Episodes

What should the Media Type be set to for the Parent? I currently have it set to "Other" at the moment.
andycob
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 9:22:40 PM

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It should be 'TV series' as that is what the content is.
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