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MM on Win7 with WMC - How to Play BluRay? Options · View
hddrew704
Posted: Saturday, February 2, 2019 11:29:46 PM
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Win 7 PC Built new specifically for MM with WMC. I Can Rip BluRay but I can not play them. I tried finding TotalMedia Theatre 5 but it is no longer available. Plus I saw a few posts that stated a Win Update in January 2018 rendered it non-functional anyway. Based on other posts I saw folks were having success with PowerDVD 17 after the MM 5.24 Release (which I have) which was promising. I tried downloading PowerDVD 17 and every downloader i found online would only download PowerDVD 18. I currently have PDVD18 installed and it works when I run its app as a standalone program but my MM Collection Management has not picked it up to list as a selectable option under the "Media Center Player Settings" Screen in MMCM.

So that is my situation. A couple questions

1) is PowerDVD 18 supported by MM 5.24?
2) If so, what do I need to do to get it affiliated.
3) Is this possible with the Trial Version? I dont want to buy a $60 program if I don't know it will work. I have no interest in using it standalone.
4) If PowerDVD 18 is NOT supported, can anyone advise me on how to get a copy of Power DVD 17?

I literally just built this PC specifically for MM which I love BTW, for DVD. But the support for BluRay is really becoming a challenge. I am sure this is a solvable problem with you help.

Thanks Laughing
pauven
Posted: Saturday, February 2, 2019 11:54:17 PM
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Microsoft is actively trying to kill WMC, even on Windows 7. They have started stripping out functionality. Recently they removed the ability to download new metadata. Eventually WMC will be unusable.

As a replacement for WMC, you should try Chameleon MediaCenter. CMC is designed to work with My Movies, and it has support for all the popular players: PowerDVD (any version), DVDFab Player 5, Media Player Classic (MPC), VLC, even the Windows 10 Movies & TV.

CMC works on Windows 7/8.1, but was designed for and works best on Windows 10. In addition to working with My Movies, it also has a built-in Music Library inspired by WMC.

Best of all, CMC is still being maintained, and regularly has new features added. I should know... I'm the author.

Paul

Chameleon MediaCenter (CMC) v3.4 - Finally for My Movies, a MCE replacement for Windows 10, plus a Music Library!
brother_hood
Posted: Sunday, February 3, 2019 1:30:13 AM
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This is the reason why I never install any updates on A/V exclusive PCs. Microsoft couldn't have made it more clear that they are sabotaging what has arguably been their greatest achievement, and I spent way too much time setting everything up just for a completely redundant Windows update to ruin it for me.

I commend you for your work Paul. Somebody suggested CMC the other day, and today I checked out the features page. I quickly noticed that I'd been there before, but I still couldn't help myself slowly scrolling through the entire page again. It is that stunning. You have literally achieved what probably every WMC enthusiast dreamed about, cloning WMC for the future and even improving on it in many ways. Damn it, even the fonts and layouts heavily resemble WMC, but what completely knocked me off my feet was when I saw the music library screenshot. You sly devil even recreated the floating album art screen.

I'm sure your work is highly appreciated among the My Movies community. I love the fact that you constantly expand CMC's feature set based on user feedback. You're going exactly in the right direction, and there's no doubt in my mind that you are the future of WMC and My Movies lovers.

However I won't let go of WMC just yet. Call it unreasonable nostalgia (which it probably is), but I'm just not ready to say goodbye to something that has been with me for so long and still works for me. I'm running TMT 5 which perfectly integrates in WMC for BD playback to the point that it almost feels (and looks) like native. I'm sure your integration works more reliably and supports more players, but they are probably just called up externally? Not that it makes a difference for anyone, like I said I'm just a nut. Like in The Wild Bunch, I know I've been outpaced by the times, but I'd rather go down my way.

There's also the question of TV tuner support which I haven't noticed among the CMC features. That's not a knock on your work at all, I just love the fact that WMC was the only interface you'd ever need to combine all of your media sources. And lets face it, nobody did TV as good as Microsoft. That coming from a guy who watches TV perhaps twice a year. It's just the fact that you could integrate all these things in one 10 foot interface that made the experience so exciting, and as long my setup continues to work I'm not inclined to abandon it.

I don't expect WMC to become unusable anytime soon. What gives you that idea? Most of the old codec 'hacks' are still in effect, and as long as you keep Windows Updates turned off there's nothing that's ever gonna break them. In my opinion, and many people in the HTPC world agree (just take a look over at TheGreenButton), Win7 is still the HTPC platform hands down.

There's also recent development for WMC like ModernMediaUI to support today's advanced technological standards.
jkwaterman
Posted: Sunday, February 3, 2019 1:41:49 AM
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I use CMC and it is in my opinion the replacement for WMC and is designed to work with MyMovies.

AS of Powerdvd 16, Cyberlink stopped support of WMC. There used to be a plugin installed by Powerdvd prior to Powerdvd 16 so you can't use 17, or 18 that works that way anymore. You can get Mymovies to setup Powerdvd as an external player, but as Paul mentioned, MS will eventually kill WMC on windows 7 much like they crippled windows player recently. Some say turn off updates but that means you are at risk for virus' unless you quarantine you machine from the internet. https://betanews.com/2019/01/27/microsoft-windows7-media-player.

CMC can be found here.

https://chamconsoft.com/cmc/features.html
brother_hood
Posted: Sunday, February 3, 2019 1:48:53 AM
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Viruses? Just don't browse any shady sites and you're good. Also, it's not like you have any valuable data on the machine. It's just a front-end for your server storing all your media, and your server of course should have all security patches and be running behind a firewall. Your router most definitely also has a firewall. I'm paranoid myself, but the sad news is if some hacking pro has it in for you, a Windows update ain't gonna save you.

jkwaterman wrote:
MS will eventually kill WMC on windows 7 much like they crippled windows player recently.


Their move has not paid of at all as they have done me a favor, and everyone who has ever had their music cover tags overwritten by Microsoft. :)

Thanks a lot for the valuable information on PowerDVD. I tested several versions of PowerDVD and TotalMedia Theatre over the years, and I found that TMT better integrates with WMC and is generally less buggy and bloated. I never upgraded past TMT 5.3.1.146 because it is the last version to support HD-DVD and without Cinavia.
jkwaterman
Posted: Sunday, February 3, 2019 5:34:53 PM
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brother_hood, you seem to think that other people have the same setup and expertise as you. Telling someone to disable updates and that they have to be a target to get hacked is not true for some that may not have your windows expertise. If you are not protected and should go to the wrong site you could get hosed especially if you download something to your unprotected machine and open the file you downloaded.

TMT stopped being produced several years ago and is not useful to some one new to Mymovies or PC movie playback. The OP's only option is to use powerdvd as an external player in mymovies if they want to use WMC. They could use a free player like MPC too, I guess, or some other free player.
pauven
Posted: Sunday, February 3, 2019 5:58:56 PM
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Thanks brother_hood for your incredibly kind words. I am a huge WMC fan, and felt the experience it provided was near perfect, so it has been a strong inspiration for the CMC design. It pleases me that you get my goals for CMC, and that you appreciate my attention to detail.

I certainly understand your choice to stick with WMC, and I applaud your efforts to keep your Windows 7 installation functional for the long-haul. If it works it works, I get it.

You brought up some interesting points, so if I may I'd like to provide some answers, plus some insight into the future of Chameleon MediaCenter.

You are right that CMC calls these players externally, as they just don't provide the necessary hooks to integrate them internally. The biggest impact is that you don't get the fancy animations that WMC provides as the embedded external player starts up. But to be honest, I don't really miss the transition animation. Going from CMC to PowerDVD, and back again, works far better than you might imagine for an external solution. Plus, you can even do things like play a TV show episode directly from an Blu-ray ISO, so external integration is really good.

Something I feel sets CMC apart from other solutions like Kodi is that I have already figured out how to call these external players, and I take care of all that programming for you. The last time I played with Kodi, I had to futz around with batch scripts which I had to find in forum postings where users were trying to figure out how to get PowerDVD to play Blu-rays. What a mess. With CMC, you just choose your player and you're done. I'm most proud of the fact that CMC can use Windows 10 Movies & TV - that integration was incredibly difficult to achieve, and last time I checked I think I was the only one in the world who has figured out how to do this.

You're absolute right that TV tuner support is lacking in CMC. I loved my Cablecard solution for many years - it was the best! The program guide was awesome too, far better than anything from the cable companies. Tuner support is a big item on my wishlist for CMC, and I am actively working on solutions. That said, it will not be the same as WMC, as Cablecard will never come to CMC. But instead of trying to recreate the past, I'm looking to the future with streaming type solutions.

My current focus has been on the Silicon Dust HDHomeRun, which provides and API so that I can actually integrate it into CMC. In case you haven't checked out what the HDHomeRun can do, it provides Over the Air (OTA) tuners so you can receive your local HD broadcasts for free, and for an annual service fee it provides both a 14-day program guide and DVR functionality (I think this costs about $3/mo). Even better, they have recently added streaming services to their package, so you can stream popular cable channels. My ultimate goal here is to recreate what made WMC's TV tuner so great, but leveraging current technology and trends.

But since the My Movies gui is the heart and soul of CMC, I am still actively developing this functionality. What is there in CMC today is great, but it's not complete, and there's more features to come. My Movies is a wonderful product, with a lot of functionality - most of which I didn't even know existed when I started this project. I'm thankful to my many users who constantly point out to me hidden gems in My Movies and WMC and ask me to add them to CMC. It's a learning process for me, but I'm happy to do what I can.

You ask what gives me the idea that WMC will become unusable anytime soon? Microsoft gives me that idea. They removed WMC from Windows 10. With every major update of Windows 10 it seems those WMC ports break, and I don't think that's any accident. And they have now begun removing functionality from Windows 7/8.x, with the first being the meta-data service. Windows 7 is also in its last year of extended support. I never thought in a million years that MS would begin breaking features in Windows 7 - but my eyes are open now, and I would not be surprised if they amp-up their attacks in the future.

Sure, you can quarantine a Win7 machine off and probably get another 10-20 years out of it, just like there's still some Windows 3.x machines running after 30+ years. But for many users, myself included, that's just not desirable. My HTPC is more than just a WMC frontend. It's also a gaming platform. And for gaming, you want DX12, which means Win10. I also want the latest formats like Dolby Atmos and DTS:X, and HDR and 4K, and I'm fairly certain TMT, which is no longer maintained, does not have these capabilities. I also want the latest powerful CPU's, and Win7 doesn't have support for the latest CPU technologies. When you essentially create a time capsule for your Win7+WMC PC, you lose out on newer capabilities.

If your Win7 WMC HTPC does everything you want, that's awesome and keep it alive as long as you can. But for users that want anything more, MS is actively trying to kill Windows 7 and WMC.

I've probably written too much. Sorry for the long post. But hey, at least CMC has an active developer who's obviously enthusiastic about their product. When's the last time MS posted about WMC, other than to say they were breaking things...

Paul


Chameleon MediaCenter (CMC) v3.4 - Finally for My Movies, a MCE replacement for Windows 10, plus a Music Library!
hddrew704
Posted: Sunday, February 3, 2019 7:30:06 PM
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Wow guys...this is a lot of info. I will look into CMC but I am a little bummed given that I just bought a new Rack amount PC built on win7. I pulled the trigger on my new PC because my after upgrading my Monster Rig to Win10 I couldn’t make anything work well.

Will CMC work ok with Win 7?

If I click BluRay coverArt in CMC will it seamlessly launch from within the app?

BTW you guys are great. Very generous with your knowledge and expertise. It is greatly appreciated
jkwaterman
Posted: Sunday, February 3, 2019 8:32:54 PM
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hddrew704 wrote:
Wow guys...this is a lot of info. I will look into CMC but I am a little bummed given that I just bought a new Rack amount PC built on win7. I pulled the trigger on my new PC because my after upgrading my Monster Rig to Win10 I couldn’t make anything work well.

Will CMC work ok with Win 7?
[

I haven't tried it on windows 7, but I do believe that Paul has made CMC Windows 7 compatible. You can still use WMC with mymovies if you setup mymovies to play powerdvd as an external player. That option is under "Tools" / "Settings" in mymovies,

You can get Powerdvd 17 ultra on B&H photo and ebay. Here's the B&H link. They also have the standard version. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1399387-REG/cyberlink_6uvww5ne7f4kavd_powerdvd_17_ultra_download.html

Here's the standard url for B&H. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1399391-REG/cyberlink_p6fnwpsuvyq3h3c_powerdvd_17_standard_download.html.

Also, I heard that Brian Binnerup is working on a new mymovies windows update so he might add powerdvd 18 functionality to mymovies if you ask him.

hddrew704 wrote:

If I click BluRay coverArt in CMC will it seamlessly launch from within the app?


CMC is keyboard, remote driven. Paul is working on mouse support

You press the [enter] key on the coverart and it brings you to the movie's/series' detail screen. You then press play for the movie, or series and it plays the disc in an installed player. You still need a player such as powerdvd 18, or 19. CMC will play other powerdvd versions as well as other players such as MPC-BE, MPC-HC, VLC, dvd fab's player, or Windows 10 app 'Movies & TV'

Also you can download and play with CMC for free. The free version will display up to 100 titles and if you want to work with more than 100 titles you need to buy CMC. You need the mymovies Collection management tool as well to configure and enter your movie Titles.

pauven
Posted: Sunday, February 3, 2019 10:52:28 PM
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hddrew704 wrote:
Will CMC work ok with Win 7?

CMC works on Win7, Win8.x, and Win10.

There is a small limitation on Win7/8.x, though. CMC has a built-in remote control button programmer, so you can configure the buttons on your MCE compatible remote to launch CMC, and to close your external players like PowerDVD. The problem is that if WMC is installed, Windows prevents the reassignment of certain buttons like the "Green Windows Button", "My TV", "My Music", "Recorded TV", etc., since these are reserved for WMC. So on Windows 7/8.x with WMC, you have fewer buttons that can be programmed. On Windows 10 without WMC, all of the buttons can be reprogrammed.

And that's it. Pretty much everything else works identically across all Windows versions. You can even run CMC on Windows 7 side by side with WMC. So if you want to give CMC a try, it only takes a minute to install, then just point it at your media folders, sync, browse, and play. You can flip back and forth between WMC and CMC to compare them to your heart's content. If you don't like CMC, just delete the folder and it's gone. (to be fair, your results with CMC are directly impacted by how well maintained you keep your My Movies meta-data. You may have some cleanup steps to go through to get your meta-data all up to date and ready for CMC)


hddrew704 wrote:
If I click BluRay coverArt in CMC will it seamlessly launch from within the app?

Yes, though as Jamie pointed out you are "clicking" with the remote control or the Enter key on your keyboard. I recently added mouse clicking to the settings menu, and a user just tested this on a Microsoft Surface with a touchscreen. He reported that the settings menu worked perfectly with a touchscreen, so I'm excited to add mouse support to the main GUI, which will make it touch enabled too!

But I think the important part of your question was the "seamlessly" part. When you click to play a movie or TV Show Episode, CMC automatically mounts the ISO if it is a rip, or directly plays the DVD/Blu-ray Folder or encoded video file, all seamlessly. It just works. This works for DVDs, Blu-rays, UHD 4K Blu-rays, in ISO or Folder formats, and a ton of different encoded video formats.

I even let you configure different players for different media types. For example, you could configure it to play Blu-rays with PowerDVD, DVD's with MPC, UHD 4K with DVDFab Player, DVD Episodes with VLC, Blu-ray Episodes with PowerDVD, WTV with PowerDVD, and other encoded media with Win10 Movies & TV.

That's right, you're not stuck with a single player, but rather you can use all of them, choosing the best one for each type of media. I know that sounds complicated, but it is super easy to configure in the settings menu.

Paul

Chameleon MediaCenter (CMC) v3.4 - Finally for My Movies, a MCE replacement for Windows 10, plus a Music Library!
brother_hood
Posted: Sunday, February 3, 2019 11:57:47 PM
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Brilliant post Paul, highly enjoyed reading it. Thanks for your very elaborate and valid points. I do admit that I live in a time-capsule. Heck, I even wear a pocket-watch and a fedora, so you get the basic idea. Forgive my ignorance, I didn't even consider 4K or gaming.

I'm not quite sure at what rate 4K is being adopted though. I only occasionally follow sales numbers, but I do keep an eye on the market and how it reacts. I know 4K TVs are the thing right now and very affordable, to the point that if you are about to get a new TV, it most certainly is going to be 4K. So I get that you want to utilize your display's capabilities. I wonder though how much you can actually utilize it right now, and whether it's worth investing in 4K already (other than the TV in case your old one bites the dust).

I guess it depends on the user again, as I see many current movies getting 4K releases, while catalog titles are being put out at a much slower rate. So if someone is mostly into modern flicks I say go for it, but since I mostly enjoy classics I don't think there are enough sources to put a 4K TV to good use. I realize I'm a rather odd case as about 90% of my collection is still DVD. I've only had a 1080p TV for 3 years so I'm still thrilled every time I watch a properly mastered HD movie. I am a slow adopter of new technologies which has the hidden advantage that you pay less and avoid trends that might fade into oblivion soon (HD-DVD anyone?).

But here I go again completely ignoring the gaming community. I guess they benefit the most from 4K, don't they? Although gaming isn't a usual use-case scenario for an HTPC, it is an interesting expansion which integrates another layer of multimedia. I would have guessed that it would be better to separate the gaming rig from the HTPC until the majority of one's movie collection is native 4K, or has upscaling improved that much? It might actually have, given the fact that some major networks like ESPN still broadcast in 720p (and MPEG2, but that's for another topic). So either upscaling is in fact that good, or they just won't invest in new equipment because they believe the average viewer doesn't care about the difference. I have only seen 4K at the local store so can't really tell how noticeable the difference is, but I'm almost certain the experience can't be compared to the switch from DVD to Blu-ray. I would appreciate your stance on this, as a tech guy and a connoisseur of high quality content yourself.

By the way, the number of external players CMC supports is amazing. Congratulations on being the first one to integrate Windows 10 Movies & TV. As a 7 or bust guy, may I ask what's desirable about it? I thought it was just a WMP replacement with a touch-oriented GUI and better codec support.

Quote:
My ultimate goal here is to recreate what made WMC's TV tuner so great, but leveraging current technology and trends.


I'm right there with you. This is exactly what Microsoft should have been doing. They were way ahead of the pack when they launched WMC and did a terrible job with marketing. It is so shameful how they've been treating WMC users. You get the feeling they are trying to kill the entire HTPC market, and make everyone shift to streaming, preferably on the XBOX One.

Quote:
My current focus has been on the Silicon Dust HDHomeRun


Is there anything you do wrong? I don't own one myself, but in all of my reading about TV in WMC, the HDHomeRun was hailed as by far the best bang for your buck. You didn't even mention its greatest feature, it integrates directly into your local network so that you can watch TV even on devices without a tuner. I didn't know they provide an API. Seems to me like the guys at Silicon Dust actually listen to their customers, unlike you know, a certain tech giant from Redmond. Does recording work with WMC or do you need their DVR plan?

So to summarize, you are absolutely spot on with your reservations about Microsoft. They know the average customer is ready to adopt new formats, but isn't very tech savvy, and this is who they target with their attacks on WMC and Win7. So for My Movies lovers who are keen on keeping up with the times, CMC is the best bet right now. How come for example that CMC is compatible with Win7 through 10, but WMC is not? Tells you everything you need to know. WMC doesn't work on Win10 because M$ doesn't want you to use it.

As a side note, there is also a project called ModernMedia that is actively developed which adds features to WMC which people who haven't switched yet might want to check out. It was designed specifically with 4K playback in mind:

https://windows10mediacenter.com/
pauven
Posted: Monday, February 4, 2019 7:16:14 PM
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I have a fond memory as a child going to Epcot's World of Tomorrow. What I remember most is seeing a TV that looked clear as reality, as if you were simply looking through a pane of glass into another world, and not at a screen. It was at that moment I became a videophile. 3D and 120Hz have been gimmicks, but 4K and HDR are solid technology improvements. 8K is next, and is already happening.

I would definitely agree, if you're in the market for a LARGE TV, 4K is the way to go. I don't have a 4K TV myself, but they are certainly in my future. For smaller TV's, it probably doesn't really matter. Ultimately it comes down to how large your TV is, how far away you sit from it, and the sharpness of your eyesight. If the TV is too small, or you sit too far away, or you have less than 20/20 vision, you probably won't enjoy the benefits of 4K. Also, if the majority of what you watch is classic films that haven't been remastered, 4K probably won't make a difference. You're right, the improvement from 1080p to 4K (4x) is not nearly as large as the improvement from 480p to 1080p (6x), and since 1080p is already reaching the limits of our visual acuity for smaller screens, that 4x improvement of 4K won't always be realizable.

But on a big screen, it is a must have. At my previous home, I had a Full-HD projector and a 12' (144") screen. It was easy to see the pixels when sitting about 12' from the screen (1:1). The next time I do a projector, I definitely want 4K. Actually, I want an 8K projector, but reality dictates that 4K is all I can hope for.

Currently on my office PC, I have 3 27" 4K screens, and while testing CMC I sometimes have to watch movies (tough job, but I make the sacrifices). So I have been able to watch some 4K content, and it's great.

Most of my occasional movie purchases are newer movies, and where possible I now try to buy the 4K version. Amazon often has sales where they will sell them 3 for $50, and at that price I appreciate the upgrade in quality, even if I really am buying for the future. Streaming platforms are great and all, but they apply so much compression that I feel I see a nice quality improvement going with a physical disc over streaming.

Gaming has always been plagued by the jaggies. Of course, in retro 8-bit gaming, jaggies are a feature, but as modern games try to look more and more realistic, aliasing artifacts become a bigger problem. Up to now, the main way to deal with jagged edges has been in post processing routines with different types of anti-aliasing. But another way is to simply jack up the resolution so that the jaggies are too small to see. In fact, that is how some anti-aliasing routines work - for example they might render the image at 4K, then scale back down to 1080p, with the pixel averaging routines smoothing out the jaggies. So if you're heavy into gaming, a 4K TV is awesome, even smaller ones. But for PC gaming, I think the issue is more about getting DirectX 12 and newer hardware, which works better for many games, regardless of what resolution you're running.

Do you know which is the biggest gaming platform in the world? Many would think PlayStation or Xbox or Switch, but in reality it is the PC. I'm sure if you filtered for "living room use on a TV" that would put consoles back in the lead, but that's mainly because PC's are inconvenient to use in the living room. I think Steam (and perhaps other services) has gone a long way towards eliminating that issue. I can fire up Steam, grab my gamepad controller, and then browse around my game collection and play games. It's almost as good as a console, plus if I have a monster PC I can do high-quality 4K gaming with all the eye candy turned on, putting all the consoles to shame. The problem that still exists in my mind is how do you switch between Steam (or Epic, or GoG or etc.) and your media library. After all, if you've got a honkin' PC attached to your monster TV in your living room (or theater or den or wherever) then you probably want to watch some flix too. Since I was able to decently integrate with external video players like PowerDVD, I see no reason I can't so the same with these gaming platforms.

And this is exactly what I thought MS was going to do - create one app to unite them all. They could have done it better than I could ever hope to achieve, but since they decided not to do it, then I'm giving it my all.

brother_hood wrote:
I don't own one myself, but in all of my reading about TV in WMC, the HDHomeRun was hailed as by far the best bang for your buck. You didn't even mention its greatest feature, it integrates directly into your local network so that you can watch TV even on devices without a tuner.

You're spot on about the HDHomeRun being a network tuner and how awesome that is. I was able to put mine in a back bedroom on the upper floor, where the signal is best and the antenna is hidden from view. Then I can stream my content from the HDHomeRun to any and all PC's in the house, including the basement. It truly is a brilliant solution. They just announced a new version at CES that includes the storage for DVR recording, making it even easier to set up, and adds commercial skipping, but I've heard rumors that the API doesn't work on it. Hope the rumors are wrong.

brother_hood wrote:
By the way, the number of external players CMC supports is amazing. Congratulations on being the first one to integrate Windows 10 Movies & TV. As a 7 or bust guy, may I ask what's desirable about it? I thought it was just a WMP replacement with a touch-oriented GUI and better codec support.


To be honest, I'm not really sure what's truly desirable about the Windows 10 Movies & TV. It is pre-installed, and it does work nicely. I do have at least one CMC user that has purchased a lot of movies in the Movies & TV app, and he lists them in My Movies, and displays them in CMC, and if I'm not mistaken he even uses CMC to play them directly in the Movies & TV app!!! Now isn't that cool, launching a movie purchased online and streaming it from the comfort of CMC! I'm not exactly sure how he got this to work, but I think he put the URL or path to the purchased movie into My Movies, which imports into CMC, and when CMC calls Movies & TV it passes that same path back to it, and voila movietime!

brother_hood wrote:
I'm right there with you. This is exactly what Microsoft should have been doing. They were way ahead of the pack when they launched WMC and did a terrible job with marketing. It is so shameful how they've been treating WMC users. You get the feeling they are trying to kill the entire HTPC market, and make everyone shift to streaming, preferably on the XBOX One.

It does seem like Microsoft has tried to push users toward the Xbox, but at the same time they seem to be avoiding anything related to tuners, program guides, and DVR (and now meta-data). I think that there were (or still are) ongoing expenses that they incur to provide these services, and that there's just not a return on investment for them. The only way to get out of these recurring expenses is to start disabling the services that use them, i.e. kill WMC. It's one of the reasons I've had to be particular in choosing what features to add to CMC, as anything that incurs an ongoing service expense can't be included. That's another thing that attracted me to the HDHomeRun - here's a standalone product that is doing all that for me, and essentially all I have to do is subscribe CMC to the API service on that device. I don't have to pay any service fees, or worse worry about collecting fees. To be clear, HDHomeRun on CMC isn't working yet, but it is a work in progress.

Paul



Chameleon MediaCenter (CMC) v3.4 - Finally for My Movies, a MCE replacement for Windows 10, plus a Music Library!
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